Election 2024 — Leaders’ debate: Parties clash on key issues ahead of vote
Ten party leaders are clashing this evening, as the first leaders' debate of the election campaign kicks off.
Ten party leaders clashed on Monday evening, as the first leaders' debate of the general election campaign kicks off.
In what was Ireland’s largest election debate, the parties clashed on housing, health, cost-of-living and immigration, alongside a myriad of other issues.
Here, we will have highlights from the debate, being hosted by RTÉ.
Many felt that the debate turned into the 'big four' clashing and that the other leaders were squeeze out.
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Lucky for you, our cartoonist Harry Burton has helped you with a reminder of some of the 'other heads.'
You can follow Harry on social media at @HBToons - his X/Twitter profile is here.
Immigration is the closing discussion in the debate, before leaders are allowed give a short statement.
Simon Harris admits that former Taoiseach Leo Varadkar was right in saying that too many immigrants came into the country, but that Ireland was dealing with an emergency situation due to Ukraine.
Aontú’s Peadar Tóibín saying that there does need to be a compassionate response to immigration, but that there has been “no common sense” from the government.
Ivana Bacik highlights her own roots, as a granddaughter of someone who came from the Czech Republic. She adds that the government should have taken a more coordinated approach to immigration.
Micheál Martin says that a new border agency is being proposed by Fianna Fáil, while adding that there are further pressures on public services due to higher number of immigrants coming into the country.
Richard Boyd Barrett says that it is “particularly sad” to see migrants being scapegoated, comparing it to when Irish people were blamed when they went to the united states and Britain.
Roderic O’Gorman says that the asylum system was broken when he first became ministers, but rejects assertions that Ireland used pull factors to bring more asylum seekers to the State.
Michael Collins says that migration has benefitted the country, but there isn’t proper consultation for rural communities.
Now getting onto housing, where Mary Lou McDonald is given the first question after she previously said that houses should fall to €300,000.
Ms McDonald denies that she got into bother over the remarks, saying that those in bother are those who cannot afford to buy their own home.
She reiterates Sinn Féin’s proposals to phase out Help to Buy, saying that such schemes should have only been introduced temporarily.
Labour’s Ivana Bacik makes her call for a state-run construction company, while saying affordable homes should be based on people’s incomes.
She says that this should be between €250,000 and €400,000.
Aontú’s Peadar Tóibín raising the thousands of people living with their parents, while calling for more work to be done to deal with dereliction and vacancy.
Roderic O’Gorman is asked about the objections by Green TD Francis Noel Duffy for a housing project near his house.
He says that Duffy only objected to the scheme as it breached the planning rules for his local area, which was backed up by an An Bord Pleanála inspector.
Micheál Martin says that Fianna Fáil has made a difference on housing, while lambasting those on the left who would call for change to the Land Development Agency – saying that it would onl He says that PBPs proposals on housing would destroy the construction industry, but Boyd Barrett is straight back with a zinger saying that Fianna Fáil destroyed the economy.
“Your record is deplorable here,” Ms McDonald says of the Fine Gael housing record, while Mr Harris attacks the Sinn Féin proposal for a leasehold scheme – where a person would own the land.
What isn’t overly surprising so far is the backing of all 10 leaders for the passage of the Occupied Territories Bill.
But there’s a bit of a spat between Micheál Martin and Richard Boyd Barrett, with the PBP leader accusing the government parties of doublespeak on the matter.
The Tánaiste snipes back, saying that Palestinians are pleased with the response of the Irish government to the continued bombardment of Gaza.
“We have stood up strongly and robustly against Israel’s actions in Gaza,” Mr Martin says, to interruptions from both Mary Lou McDonald and Richard Boyd Barrett calling for sanctions against Israel.
Simon Harris accuses Mary Lou McDonald of “trying to divide this country”.
Climate change is top of the agenda here, with Roderic O’Gorman first out of the traps here.
Mr O’Gorman says that it “hasn’t always been easy” to secure agreement on climate policy with Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil.
He says that he’s disappointed that the government did not start allocating funds within the Climate and Nature Fund before the election was called, saying Simon Harris and Micheál Martin blocked this.
He says that if the Government sought to allocated €2bn two weeks before a general election, opposition parties would have taken a hard line against them.
The Green leader fires back quickly that the government decided how to spent billions with the Apple money just weeks away from a general election.
Mr Martin denies that he is briefing against the Green Party being a future coalition partner, while saying as Taoiseach he backed all of the Green ministers on climate policies.
Cian O’Callaghan says that, even if all of the Climate Action Plan is implemented, Ireland would only reach a 29% reduction in emissions compared to the 51% needed.
Questions are also raised about the nitrates derogation, with Mr O’Callaghan saying that the government is leading farmers down the garden path by saying it can be kept.
He calls for €1.5bn to go towards a transition fund to farmers moving into more sustainable practices..
Mary Lou McDonald describes the carbon tax as a “cash cow” for the State and rejects assertions that it is ringfenced, following reports from the Comptroller and Auditor General cannot account for where the funds go.
Ivana Bacik says that €2.5bn from the Apple tax money should go towards a “retrofitting revolution”, while also calling for binding emissions reduction targets.
Michael Collins of Independent Ireland blames the missing of emissions targets on the Green Party. Roderic O’Gorman rejects the assertion immediately.
The cost-of-living debate turned to groceries in that last spell.
The cartoonist Harry Burton has weighed in.
The debate itself has turned mostly into a back and forth between the leaders of Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin. Not many others getting a look in here.
Some sources in the smaller parties are questioning why anyone bar Micheál Martin, Simon Harris and Mary Lou McDonald are there.
“It’s really a 3-way debate,” texts one Social Democrats source.
Asked about his role as health minister when the contract for the National Children’s Hospital was signed, Mr Harris quickly says that it wasn’t him who signed it.
“The Government of Ireland made the decision to have the National Children’s Hospital,” Mr Harris said.
Immediate interjections following this from Aontú leader Peadar Tóibín, who hits out at runaway spends on issues like the Leinster House bike shed and security hut.
Ms McDonald denies that her party not publishing their manifesto in advance of Monday night’s debate was a deliberate tactic.
She says that there are now “resources and opportunities beyond our wildest expectations”, The Sinn Féin leader says that she is astounded with Fine Gael’s plans for a savings account for newborns, describing it as “faux concern” for children. She highlights children in homelessness or those on scoliosis waiting lists.
Harris hits back, saying that nobody has a monopoly on compassion. Ms McDonald returns fire, saying that Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have had a monopoly on power since the foundation of the State.
Cost of living is up next, with Micheál Martin saying his party will work to reduce energy prices and the cost of goods.
Simon Harris says that people are telling him that they want some of the one off payments to be made more permanent.
Mary Lou McDonald says that Sinn Féin are proposing a cut to the price of fuel, while Green leader Roderic O’Gorman highlights the policies his party brought forward to cut childcare fees over the last few years.
Labour’s Ivana Bacik says that her party isn’t proposing any tax cuts, but that her party wants to expand free GP care to all under 18s.
Michael Collins says that people are angry with the public not seeing the wealth of the country trickle down to them. He says that short-term payments do not get to the root of the problem for people, even if they are welcomed on a short-term basis.
He says that the VAT on hospitality must be cut back to 9%.
Cian O’Callaghan says that it is not possible for other parties to promise tax cuts, as well as increases to spending on public services.
Katie Hannon asks if the Social Democrats have the same position as Labour, but Mr O’Callaghan says that there should be an emergency VAT cut to 9% for small and independent businesses in the hospitality sector.
We’re off to a break now. Thankfully.
The cartoonist Harry Burton has weighed in with his early take after the opening exchanges from tonight's debate.
#LeadersDebate #GE2024 pic.twitter.com/CJT4Wc6nHt
— Harry Burton (@HBtoons) November 18, 2024
The debate is getting started, with Katie Hannon launching into questioning on what parties would work together in coalition.
Ms Hannon calls on the 10 leaders to respect the fact that “the public deserve to hear everyone out”.
She immediately asks Fine Gael leader Simon Harris about the ongoing controversy around John McGahon, with Mr Harris saying that he had not seen the video last July when he described it as a “scuffle”.
“He was rightly punished in relation to having to pay that fine,” Mr Harris says of the civil case taken against Mr McGahon.
On coalition, Mr Harris says that it is the “height of arrogance” to talk about a rotating taoiseach agreement before a single vote is cast.
Mr Harris says he is being “honest with the electorate” when he says he will not engage with Sinn Féin.
Fianna Fáil leader and Tánaiste Micheál Martin says that politicians need to “get serious”, while hitting out at Sinn Féin for not being serious. He adds that both Help to Buy and the First Homes Scheme are red lines for Fianna Fáil in coalition talks.
Asked if she has a credible path to power without backing by either Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald says that there is an opportunity for a government without either of them.
Pressed on this, Ms McDonald says that the electorate will decide who has a path to power and that it can happen if the public back her party.
“We want, not just new faces around the Cabinet table, we want a change of direction in fundamental policies that are currently damaging people’s lived experience,” Ms McDonald says.
Green Party leader Roderic O’Gorman says that his party would work with both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, but there needs to be an agreed programme for government with green measures.
“Fundamentally Katie, it will be on policy that we’ll seek an agreement,” Mr O’Gorman says.
Labour leader Ivana Bacik says that her priority on coalition talks are with other centre left parties, to establish a “common platform” for wider government talks.
Repeatedly asked if she would go in with any of the three main parties, Ms Bacik said that she will only do so from a common platform.
Asked if the Social Democrats would form part of a left-bloc, Social Democrats deputy leader Cian O’Callaghan said that they would talk to all parties after the general election.
Asked about aligning with any of the big parties, he said it would be done after the election.
Aontú leader Peadar Tóibín is straight out, saying that no party leaders have given straight answers to coalition deals.
Mr Tóibín said that his party would not go in with Fine Gael or the Green Party. He hits out at Mr Harris in particular, saying that if he was head of a private company he would be fired, citing waste of money within government.
He does back Fianna Fáil as a coalition option however, citing: “Fianna Fáil is an empty hollow husk in terms of ideology… It’s all about the mercs and perks,” Mr Tóibín said.
Independent Ireland leader Michael Collins, questioned on how his party would be whipped in government, he said that it wouldn’t be in place for moral issues.
Asked his preferred choice for Taoiseach out of Simon Harris, Micheál Martin and Mary Lou McDonald, Mr Collins declined to say.
People Before Profit leader Richard Boyd Barrett says that his party wants to see a government without either Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil, calling for a “left government for the first time in the history of this State”.
He said that PBP has “actively promoted” the idea of supporting other left wing parties in government, while hitting out at 100 years of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.
Right to Change leader Joan Collins also sets out that if she is elected, she will not back a Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael lead government.
Mr Harris says that “crass comments” about 100 years of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil do not respect the mandate held by his party over the years. Micheál Martin backs this up, saying that it “takes some nerve” as he launches a stinging attack against Sinn Féin.
Mary Lou McDonald says that comments by both Mr Martin and Mr Harris show off the “politics of entitlement” “The [people when they go out to vote will have a clear cut choice. More of the same with your two selves, or a government beyond Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael,” Ms McDonald said.
The ten leaders are delivering their opening comments.
Cartoonist for the Irish Examiner Harry Burton has this early artwork.
#LeadersDebate pic.twitter.com/DVb88BKCI4
— Harry Burton (@HBtoons) November 18, 2024
So, it's the first leaders' debate of the campaign.
All leaders, bar Holly Cairns of the Social Democrats, will be taking part. Ms Cairns is due to give birth in a matter of days and is unable to travel to Dublin to take part in the televised debate between the 10 party leaders. Deputy leader Cian O'Callaghan will take her place.
Here's who is participating in the debate:
- Fine Gael leader Simon Harris
- Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin
- Green Party leader Roderic O’Gorman
- Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald
- Labour leader Ivana Bacik
- Social Democrats deputy leader Cian O’Callaghan
- People Before Profit leader Richard Boyd Barrett
- Independent Ireland leader Michael Collins
- Aontú leader Peadar Tóibín
- Right to Change leader Joan Collins
